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Senior member requirements post


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#1 John

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:30 PM

After asking in cc today it seems that the post detailing requirements for senior membership is in a forum only accessible to senior members...which makes no sense.

Can someone either move it or explain why it is where it is?

(also can someone move my two previous suggestions to unused please)
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#2 Matthew

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 09:03 PM

I brought this up multiple times. IIRC, they're not showing it to the public because they don't want it to be a goal... or something like that. It's to leave it more in the hands of the people who nominate others. 


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#3 Epoc

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 09:17 PM

Why would you not want it to be a goal?


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#4 EverRush

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 09:30 PM

Well, if say someone had all the reqs to become a senior member, but maybe they didn't quite get along so smoothly with the rest of the clan, they would bitch and complain about why they haven't been made a SenMem. But the final decision on if they will become a SenMem is up to the current seniors. So not posting it could alleviate some unneeded conflict within the clan, but also, if someone is really deserving but is just shy of one req... it wouldn't be incredibly outrageous to not appoint him. Again this might cause some conflict. I don't believe this ever has actually happened... but you never know... Fenway said he might try to get my to be a SenMem early after I left and came back. {kinda late now as I'm a SubDir [sorta]}


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#5 Joshua

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 10:45 PM

Well, if say someone had all the reqs to become a senior member, but maybe they didn't quite get along so smoothly with the rest of the clan, they would bitch and complain about why they haven't been made a SenMem. But the final decision on if they will become a SenMem is up to the current seniors. So not posting it could alleviate some unneeded conflict within the clan, but also, if someone is really deserving but is just shy of one req... it wouldn't be incredibly outrageous to not appoint him. Again this might cause some conflict. I don't believe this ever has actually happened... but you never know... Fenway said he might try to get my to be a SenMem early after I left and came back. {kinda late now as I'm a SubDir [sorta]}

 

Er, we can appoint non-staff ranks at our own discretion, assuming it's within reason. Always have been able to. O.o; 

 

Buuut, basically this. Most Seniors are chosen by the current Senior Members -- the requirements are more of a guideline rather than a straight requirement. 


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#6 John

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 10:45 PM

As epic said, it should be a goal.
Say someone does indeed have all the requirements for it but doesn't get along with everyone all that well then let them ask why they haven't got it and perhaps it might give them pause for thought.
Furthermore though (I'd like to stress I'm not talking about myself here) if someone joined recently and hasn't the slightest clue what the reqs might be, as opposed to older members who have somewhat of an idea, then they might be exceptional in every way for a month shy of the requirents and then think what more cold they possibly do to deserve the rank. When I saw the forum for the first time after becoming CitOs for a brief period it felt to me like the whole system was somewhat stagnant. Without at least some degree of transparency it seems hard to dissuade that perception.


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#7 Tarot

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 11:00 PM

If you make it a visible goal, people will strive for it. Instead of people standing out because they're awesome or helpful or stuff, you get people who feign awesomeness/helpfulness to get ahead in the clan. Sure, that can be useful in the short run, but being a senior member is a long term investment (from what I understand which admittedly is limited) and you end up with SenMems that don't have the follow through.

 

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#8 Steph

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 05:14 AM

My thought is that if you make it a goal, it'll be like, people power through and act helpful to get the rank then pow, achievement unlocked and they stop.

 

The way it currently is suits our system fine. People are nice and helpful around the clan then one day outta nowhere, they get this nice bonus, yet stay friendly/helpful. Hell, people have become seniors without even realising before.


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#9 Epoc

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:35 AM

If you make it a visible goal, people will strive for it. Instead of people standing out because they're awesome or helpful or stuff, you get people who feign awesomeness/helpfulness to get ahead in the clan.

Sure people might be pretending to be helpful, although the way I see they would just be putting more effort towards being helpful where they might not usually be and I don't see why that would be a bad thing. People are more likely to get help when needed, and others are more likely to get recognized

 

 

My thought is that if you make it a goal, it'll be like, people power through and act helpful to get the rank then pow, achievement unlocked and they stop.

So demote them if they don't keep up with expectations.

 

I don't understand why you wouldn't want the guidelines posted. The promotion would still be at the leadership's discretion and all it would do is give members incentive to put more effort into the clan. Some people might be active on RS and not on forums or vice versa, not knowing that both are important and having a basic guideline would only help improve members since ideally everyone would act like Senior Members.


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#10 Deadlycure

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:52 AM

Guys who want it to be goal based. Here's your goal. Be a good clan mate, be active and stick around for awhile and you'll become a senior member in your due time..

 

The system that is in place now is good and shouldn't be changed. If you need to see a bunch of "numbers" in the form of reqs in order to motivate yourself to become a senior member then you're motivation isn't in the right place and you shouldn't be a senior member :)

 

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#11 Seán

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:23 PM

If a clan member is right for the position then people will vote for them to become a Senior Member. If they need statistics to motivate them to do good, I don't think that's the right way to go about it.


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#12 Epoc

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:49 PM

I'm not saying you should add statistics as a requirement to become senior members like 5 events or 100 posts or anything like that, I'm just saying you should have a guideline stating what's important like I originally thought irc/vent activity was mandatory and it turns out its not. I don't see a reason not to tell people what's expected of a good member and by extension how to improve your chances of becoming a sr.

As for proper motivation, the people likely to read these guidlines are most likely motivated already. This would just have them focus on things that are actually important to the clan rather than what they think is important.

Personally I'm active for like a week every few months so it doesn't make to much of a difference to me but it just seems like the strangest thing to want people to act like senior members but not tell them what that entails.

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#13 Holy

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:38 PM

I thought the requirements were already posted somewhere else?



#14 John

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 08:56 PM

I thought the requirements were already posted somewhere else?

They were. Which is why this was brought to my attention.

To be honest the only reason I started this topic was because I wanted to know the time period between joining and elligability. I know it exists and therfore I thought it was reasonable to ask that it be public. All this goal stuff is a red herring, I simply think that if the position has a time constraint attached to it then that should be public. The system that is in place now might well be good but it wasn't the way it is a year or two ago. The idea that someone would spend 3-6 months in a clan just to fulfil a bunch of criteria to get a rank is plain mental, the rrank is not a reward, it is recognition and nothing more. Sure it entails certain responsibilities but obtaining it never has and never will and never should make a bad member good.

I don't want statistics, I don't want criteria or anything like that. I just want the time period to be public. That is literally all I care about. It's a very simple yes or no question.
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#15 Joshua

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:40 PM

They were. Which is why this was brought to my attention.

To be honest the only reason I started this topic was because I wanted to know the time period between joining and elligability. I know it exists and therfore I thought it was reasonable to ask that it be public. All this goal stuff is a red herring, I simply think that if the position has a time constraint attached to it then that should be public. The system that is in place now might well be good but it wasn't the way it is a year or two ago. The idea that someone would spend 3-6 months in a clan just to fulfil a bunch of criteria to get a rank is plain mental, the rrank is not a reward, it is recognition and nothing more. Sure it entails certain responsibilities but obtaining it never has and never will and never should make a bad member good.

I don't want statistics, I don't want criteria or anything like that. I just want the time period to be public. That is literally all I care about. It's a very simple yes or no question.

 

 

It's a rough guideline -- and it is public, if you sort through old topics (six months IIRC). We've appointed people before that point before, however, and it's not a rule. 


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#16 John

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 06:57 AM

it is public......... old topics.

Either make it visible to everyone or private, i spent a good 15 minutes looking for it and couldn't find it.

 

I'm not suggesting the system of voting within existing senior members. That's how it should be so anyone that think's that i think otherwise has missed the point. I don't think anybody here was requirements of any sort.


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#17 idontsparkle

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 07:16 AM

As a bit of an outsider, and i know I rank low on the pecking order in terms of everything.

 

I'm not even sure what you all think of me lol. "Answers on a postcard please" a quote from Craig Charles.

 

 

But I have to agree that, something such as that, should be kept hidden, it should be a reward that the current senior members, give to those who deserve it the most, and that in turn festers good spirit and hope and friendliness within us all, and keeps us all sailing.

 

It shouldn't be  goal to strive for, as has been stated, someone could meet all the Req's and still not get it, which could possibly lead to tensions within the clan itself, resentment and bitterness do stew and fester, and as how much we all think we know each other, things like this can effect anyone in a different way.

 

As soon as you set guidelines that are available to strive for, what in turn was natural for some people and those people deserve it, turns into changing yourself, the way you act, behave, go about your business so you can achieve the "goal",  this in my honest opinion is wrong, as with everything you should be honest about who you are, and that's  something we should celebrate as a whole, you should be who you are, not someone your not for the sake of a title.

 

Just my 2cents, worthy or not.


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#18 Dw Vonder

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 07:34 AM

As a bit of an outsider, and i know I rank low on the pecking order in terms of everything.

 

We should make this guy Senior just because... I'd laugh a little.


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#19 Christian

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 07:01 PM

The whole idea behind the Senior Member rank is that it is awarded to clan members that are the embodiment of a great clan member naturally.  The types of things that Senior Members currently look at when appointing others do include a list of quantitative items (such as has been in the clan for __ months or has __ posts on the forums), but those are ultimately suggestions.

 

If someone makes it their goal to get the Senior Member rank they should do so by striving to be the best possible clan members that they can be.  Be active in most areas of the clan, get involved, help others, don't be a prick, and you are will on your way to get selected.

 

Time is another element.  Subsistence has been around for quite a while, and in the same stride, most clan members will probably have to be here for the better part of a year before they are considered.

 

What I'm saying here is that you should not make it your goal to become a Senior Member so much as to become a really good Clan Member.  The Senior Member rank will come naturally after that.


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